Thanks guys, you rock. Two weeks later and I'm feeling slightly better about it.

The plan of attack now is to swap out the pump anyway and see if that works, If not, I'll consider stuck/failed valves as suggested, cheers. Although I haven't a clue how to check that yet!

I discovered something interesting about the pumps, though.

Pipe number two (the one I had to replace) has a banjo fitting on one end, which fits onto the top of the pump with a bolt. But I discovered ... the bolts for the two pumps I have are different.




The bolt for the existing pump is on the left. On the right, the bolt from the new pump. Same inner bore (about 7mm), same length, but different bolt heads (17mm on existing and 19mm on new)

BUT the flow holes in the middle are different sizes. The hole on the old bolt is maybe 2/3 the size of the bolt on the new one, and shaped differently. Also, the threads on the old one look different, but it seems to fit the new pump OK.

As both pumps came off V6 SEs, I'm guessing either Mazda made some design improvement on the bolt, or one of the bolts is not OEM - I think the latter.

Any tips on which might be better - large fluid hole = better efficiency?? EDIT: apparently not. Cheers H, I'll use the one on the right.

S

Anyone bored with this saga yet? I was bored with it by the end of last summer ... !!

So I replaced the pump with the spare from the donor car, but it didn't solve anything.

On top of that, the system was still leaking PAS fluid from the steering column somewhere, and it was dripping onto the subframe and onto the floor. And there's no way to access the column unless you take off the pump again and access it through the wheel arch; or lie across the top of the engine and access the steering column down the back of the firewall (and I can only do that because the car doesn't have aircon so there are no pipes in the way). The trouble with that is that you can only get one hand down there.

I couldn't face either of those options yet again, so the only practical choice was to remove the intake manifold completely and reduce the height of the engine by half, which allows access to the steering column.

From this:


To this. The area I needed to get to was behind the now-exposed rear cam cover, about 8 inches down. There's no way you can reach this properly with the manifold on.


(Note the uncovered ports above the rocker cover - I hadn't taped up that side yet. If you do this job, fercrissakes cover them up with masking tape or paper and don't drop anything down there! And don't bend the metal gaskets! )

It took about 3 hours to remove everything. It's not a difficult job and I had done it before, but I was taking my time, particularly as the two petrol hoses are involved, and after the initial small spurt of fuel when I took them off (which I expected, and was prepared for), one of them unexpectedly continued to squirt out fuel every ten minutes for a couple of hours - I presume that pressure built up, and kept expelling the fuel. I had to shove a yoghurt pot under there and keep emptying it into my emergency petrol can until it slowed down long enough for me to safely leave the car and find a bung Thank god the fuel tank was almost empty! I was caught out, because this didn't happen last time I took off the manifold.

Fortunately also, I'd disconnected the battery before I started and covered the positive clamp with a plastic bag so there was no way the battery might accidentally reconnect, cause a spark, and blow me to the moon.

Anyway.

Hughie suggested I wrap PTFE tape around the threads of all the pipe connections to stop them leaking (the gaffa tape is holding some fire sheathing in place):



Then I reassembled the car. Fortunately I hadn't cocked anything up, and it started first time and didn't blow up because of any petrol spills (although I was a bit paranoid, so first I moved Sundance down the road, so if there was a fire, he didn't go up in smoke with the V6).

I tested the PAS. It still doesn't work. It doesn't leak any more (bravo, Hughie!), and I've bled it to death, there are no bubbles in the fluid, but with the wheels on the ground it's still not working.

So, with a different pump, a sealed system with no air, and no leaks underneath, I think I'm now looking at an electrical problem.

This weeny thing here is the power connection to the PAS pump:


It's a single, unprotected wire with a completely unprotected insertion into the connector (what the HELL were Mazda thinking of??), and it's so fragile, I'm wondering if it's broken, and so the pump is not working. If I have time tomorrow I'll try to take it apart and see if the wire is loose, but the problem is that if I break the connector, I'm absolutely stuffed.

Meanwhile I'm checking up on the suggestions you all gave me before, but if anyone else has any ideas, then they'd be very welcome.

Cheers all

S

Serena, before removing any fuel lines/hoses, always remove the fuel tank filling cap first!
The pressure builds inside of an almost empty fuel tank is the biggest it can be.This is dictated by the ambient air temperature rise.So that pressure is released when you undo the hose and squirts all the petrol that's in the hose to equalise the difference in pressures.I'm talking from an experience here
About the PAS, i'm thinking of something, but wait till tommorow to arrange the words in my head..

Arrgghh that's so obvious, I'm very embarrassed that it didn't occur to me

Thanks Todor!

S

Interesting, sorry you're having such problems.

Perhaps you can help me understand why there would be an electrical connection to the PAS pump, I thought is was a purely mechanical system, not an electrical one (like on my other half's car - I spend a good half hour looking for the PAS fluid level ).
Maybe it's just for a warning light.

I hope it's not the steering rack itself - have you checked that?

There's an electronic pressure sensor in the PAS pump itself unlikely for that to have failed though, especially on two pumps - I think it's more likely the problem lies at the rack end unfortunately

Just to quadruple check, you've definitely not got any of the rack connections reversed? As in this photo - blue ones perhaps wrong, or red ones perhaps wrong?

Quick question:
Does the hydraulic oil flows back into the reservoir(plastic tank)?
And another one:
You said that you bled the system, how did you exactly do it?

@Hughie: There are only 3 connectors at that point, at the rack end, not 4 (1 blue, 2 red).

There is a small 4th one round the back (driver's side) but that can't go anywhere else.

I've compared the bungs that AndyB put into the rack, and the two larger ones are the same length, diameter and thread (photo below), so theoretically I could have put those two pipes in the wrong way around; BUT the pipes concerned aren't the right length to fit into each other's connectors. They're all bent in a certain way to accommodate each other, and the other parts of the car that they have to fit around.

The bungs (basically these are the ends of the original pipes, sealed off and left in place):


Moreover: I connected them up as per a reference photo you sent me last year, which I presume must be correct as it's on an assembled car! (the annotation is mine, from later)



If you compare to my photo above, you see the small one at the top, and the one with the big U-curve goes in the back.

@MaZZda: yes, there seems to be flow in and out of the tank, as there were bubbles appearing when I was bleeding it. I bled it with wheels off the ground, the cap of the reservoir off, and the engine off. I rotated the steering wheel slowly lots of times, and kept topping up the fluid until the level stopped dropping (so, I primed the system first and got the pump "wet", so that when I started the car it wasn't "dry" until the fluid got there, and didn't burn out - I understood this was a danger, if you turned the engine on when the pump was dry?).

Then I turned on the engine and did more rotations of the steering wheel until there were no more bubbles in the fluid. I kept checking for leaks underneath, but there weren't any.

When the wheels are back on the ground, nothing happens (i.e., there's no PAS at all), although since the leak was stopped it's not as heavy as it was. I also compared it to Sundance's PAS, which is 100%, so I can judge just how far it is from perfect on the V6.

S

Hi Serena

What??????????? Did I hear you say "bungs"?

So, the system has been modified?

The system wasn't modified, it was completely deleted.

You could call them bungs, stoppers, whatever. They stopped up the redundant holes in the steering column when the system was removed. I had to remove them before putting in the new set of PAS pipes.

S

Ah, so the system is now back to a completely standard set-up?

I was worried for a moment that you've installed a different style of PAS, in which case there's the problem! But if all pipes are in place, and no bungs, then it should work.

It sounds like you have done the correct procedure on the belts and pump, and bleeding the system.

All I can think of now is a faulty control valve or rack.

My son's car (not a Mazda, but an old "ordinary" brand) had to have a new power rack about 3 years ago, and it was £400 including labour, which I thought was ok.

Again question:
What is the ID(internal diameter) of the "new" copper tube at the end of the hose?
Is it the same as the OEM one or is it smaller?
Maybe the system lacks flow?

I couldn't tell you, as the pipe is now on the car!

But, the pipe was made by a specialist hydraulics company who used the original as a template ... it looked identical when I compared them.

However: the other day the car overheated when I was testing it, which is unusual - then I realised that the water pump/PAS pump belt wasn't spinning properly. It worked 100% when I first started the car after the manifold job, but it seems something is suddenly loose/too tight, so I need to investigate that. Obviously an issue with the belt will affect the PAS pump.

S

Finally, finally, FINALLY !!!

AFTER 2 YEARS !!!

!!!!!!!!!! THE V6 HAS PAS !!!!!!!!!!

However it doesn't have an MOT yet - that's booked for a week Saturday (I could have done it sooner, but my neighbour has organised it with her friendly MOT tester).

I hope to f*** that it passes, because Sundance's MOT runs out the day before, and he won't get through until I've sorted out the cat-killing problem, and probably done some welding

S

Hi Serena, Brilliant!
Well done for persisting with Butch.
Now you'll need to go to the Gym to have your muscle work-out if the steering wheel is too easy to turn …

Did you use the line:
"Start working or i'll scrap you, you piece of s*it.."

I'm happy to know that you've done it!
Tell us what was the problem,what did you found out,how did you managed to do it??

Congrats with getting the PAS sorted, what a journey thats been. Fingers crossed the mot goes well and then you can finally get out onto the B roads and enjoy Butch.

Persistence has its rewards...

Congratulations Serena!

Patrick

Thanks everyone, fingers crossed for Saturday

Getting it insured has been a nightmare today, because the insurance companies won't insure it without a MOT, but without insurance I can't drive the car to a MOT centre to get a MOT ... a classic bureaucratic "Catch-22" (thank you, HM Government), which everyone I spoke to today was completely unwilling to help with.

(So, be aware of that bi.tch of a problem: if you have a car off the road long-term, without MOT, and therefore no insurance, the government have cleverly arranged it so the odds are stacked against you getting it back on the road, unless you have a trailer, or your MOT centre will collect it using their business insurance).

Finally Sundance's insurer agreed to add Butch to my existing policy for Sundance, as a "multi-car" policy. So it's costing me an arm and a leg, but once I actually have a MOT I can find a better policy, and then hopefully cancel this one within the 14 days cooling-off period. The main thing right now is to get it to the MOT centre in a legal way, get the damned MOT, and sort out the rest of the mess later.



Yes, I've been telling Butch that for 2 years ... !

I'm not sure what the problem was. I installed the pump from my ZXi donor, and the new after-market pipe; and it wouldn't work. Then I installed the pump and pipe from Marcus's dead ZXi (currently at Hughie's). I swapped over to those parts (from Marcus's car), because I knew 100% they were working, and that if the PAS still didn't work after that, then the problem had to be something else.

I also made sure the tyres were at the correct pressure - it turns out they were very low, as the car has been standing, which probably wasn't helping when I tried to move the wheel.

But none of that worked, so the only problem could be a leak, an airlock, or possibly the rack. However, it wasn't leaking fluid, and I figured the most likely problem was a persistent airlock, because the entire PAS system has been off the car, there must be loads of air in it. So I kept doing steering wheel rotations, with the engine off and the fluid reservoir open, and the front wheels off the ground.

(Engine off, because doing it with the engine on means the pump is working, and the propellor cuts up the air bubbles into very small bubbles which take ages to come out. With the pump switched off, big bubbles can come out without being broken up, and you clear the airlock faster. Or so the internet says, anyway!)

Eventually I noticed that there was PAS fluid all over the outside of the reservoir, and realised that it must have made a massive "burp"; that can only mean that there had been an airlock. So I put the wheels on the ground, tested the steering wheel again ............. and it worked!!!!!!



That moment when I first saw the wheel turn with just a touch on the steering wheel ... after all this trouble ... I will remember that moment of triumph and disbelief for a very, very long time!!

After jumping up and down, shouting, and doing a victory lap around the drive, I sat in the car and tested it thoroughly, and yes the PAS was working fine. I tested it with the engine on and off, and with the wheels on the ground. It now works perfectly, even on gravel.

Then I tested it every day for the next three days, just to make sure I wasn't dreaming, and that it was still working

S

Oh my god!! i'm so relieved. Was starting to fear the worst! Kinda scared to show my face on here for fear of being torn apart. Makes sense with the air bubbles though. Part of the reason I deleted the PAS in the first place was that its such a pain to deal with. I got fluid everywhere despite my best efforts to contain it and didn't want to repeat it when re-installing the engine. I guess we now know a PAS delete is not an option for these cars...
Again, I'm so sorry for putting you through this.

Hello Andy!

I think in hindsight we can all agree that yes, the PAS on these cars is a b*std and should be left well alone. However, you already had a problem with the PAS that you needed to resolve, you made the call you needed to at the time (i.e., to not refit it), and it was your car, so fair enough!

And to be brutally fair, I bought the car knowing it had no PAS, and that reinstalling it was going to be my issue; and the delays and issues that followed are purely down to me and my home circumstances, a bit of bad luck and a lot of bad weather; and there being no manual for this job, it was trial and error from A-Z. So, in that respect, please do not feel bad - I took on the responsibility of getting the PAS back on there, it just took far longer than I envisaged! (one of the pipes getting damaged didn't help).

Yes, I've been grumpy as hell about it, however, that's been directed at the job (and often at Mazda's engineering decisions). I did frequently wonder why you took it off, but now I know you'd had issues with containing leaks, I can empathise: getting a faceful of PAS fluid when refitting the pump is enough to make anyone want to walk away from it!

Anyway, it should pass MOT - the only sticky point possibly being emissions, but that's normal for these cars. When I got it tested back in 2018 the failure was only down to the leaky PAS, and the emissions (I think the engine was cold, the garage let it sit outside for ages before they tested it). It didn't even have any advisories - not one - and that's down to all the years of work you put into it, getting it welded, powder coated etc.

So, hopefully I'll get the all-clear on Saturday, and then I'll finally be able to enjoy a refreshed V6 engine and take it on track. Currently it's wearing some nice V6 wheels in gold, courtesy of Andy M (the grey ones are stored safely in my workshop).

Come along to a show and see it in all its PAS-enabled glory

S

Guess what, everyone ...

Passed!

nice one, congratulations, now go have a rather spirited drive that vris is sooo addictive

That's brilliant Serena, your persistence has paid off!

Now take Butch for that Italian tune-up! You'll then feel that all the effort has been worthwhile. Even the 1.5 is fun when you accelerate it through 3,000 revs, the 1800 is even faster, and the V6 must be a huge amount smoother as well (I've never had a V6). (Yet).

The V6's first outing at a show! (and the last of the Jap season, because of COVID). Yakushi show, near Silverstone on 12 September.

It's brilliant to drive, although I still have an occasional squeal in the PAS belt on full lock, that I haven't yet eliminated.

There are still some minor jobs to do on it, niggles to investigate, items to refit, repaint. But only small, non-urgent things that I can enjoy sorting out on a free day. My working focus now has to turn to Sundance.







S

Looks great, and one of my favourite colours!

looking rather awesome Serena, glad you're enjoying the drive too. the wheels are great too, suit it very nicely.

V6 just passed 2022 MOT with flying colours!

It even passed emissions wthout a problem! Mind you, in the last week I've given it new oil, oil filter, air filter, injector cleaner, and I replaced the front rocker gasket which had disintegrated. It also had new plugs and a new rear rocker gasket in Jan, so it's no longer leaking oil into places it shouldn't.

Also I'd replaced the rear brake discs and pads ... um, yesterday!

It's running absolutely sweetly now, it's lost its "smoker's cough". Shame really, as I really liked the sound of that

S

Brilliant Serena, you must be feeling more relaxed now.
Enjoy.