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Club323F • View topic - BA - Maddy in banzai mag! XD

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DMS
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:49 pm 
Thats wicked Lee 8)

I really look forward to following your progress :thumbleft:


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marshymob
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:56 pm 
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amazing, need more pictures though ;)

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ziggy323f
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:30 am 
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Dreams do come true ;) :thumbup:


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Skylite
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:13 am 
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what an awesome project! :D

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Debz
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:19 am 
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Yeah you kept that one quiet ya bugger :lol: ;)

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323F Rock
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:29 am 
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Can't wait to get this working mate! :D
its not going to be easy though :(

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Lerch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:36 am 
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[quote="323F Rock"]Can't wait to get this working mate! :D
its not going to be easy though :([/quote]

True dat nathan! but nothing ever is lol

Big up nathan for his help with the ECU itself :salute:

looking forward to test fitting things tonight and tommorrow :D

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hitman
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:49 pm 
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:shock: 1.5 SC, super interesting :badgrin:

Must keep looking this 8)


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ChrisL323f
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Good work for taking on such a strong project. Please finish it!


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eogbaker
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:50 pm 
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well this explains your secrecy (definitely been hanging around 323f Rock too much with all these secrets lol)

Definitely a good idea and seeing you are at an engineering company its the best place to do it. Also if you keep all the jigs for the brackets you might even be able to start making these as a kit.

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Stuz
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Glad you came out in the end Lee, we will all be here to support you :evil4:

Seriously though, I'm bloody looking forward to actually fitting it and running it up ;-)

You are more than welcome to come up whenever you want, we should have a new house soon :-)

Stu

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Lerch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:03 pm 
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right heres the beast itself with the new inlet/outlet plate i made at work
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/1003169is.jpg/][img]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3654/1003169is.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/1003171a.jpg/][img]http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8386/1003171a.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/1003170z.jpg/][img]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3062/1003170z.jpg[/img][/url]

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Now something I want to ask. Are you planning on running a bypass in the system. As the one I helped fit to the IS200 has a built in bypass so you only get full boost when at full throttle. all it is, is a little butterfly valve on the pressurised side that is linked to you throttle body. So when throttle body is fully open the butterfly valve is completely closed.

Although his car is also running a special super charger blow off valve (which in theory means you dont need the bypass) when I closed the bypass at idle the engine did not like it. Wasnt holding a steady idle with the bypass shut.

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:21 pm 
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also any photos without the plate on it?

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DMS
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:29 pm 
What sort of power you hoping for Lee?


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Lerch
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:40 pm 
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ayrton, one of things that has been bugging me is the pressure control side of things. I have seen a BOV on a supercharged golf which acted like a bypass but still unsure what to do with mine. Thing is, i only want to run around 6psi because as everybody knows the Z5 isnt exactly a strong engine until i can afford forged internals (which could be a while).#

me and nathan spoke about pressure control yesturday but im still a little undecided on what to do and how tbh....... research and the internet are my best friends at the minute. And i do have some pics with the plate off but they are on my other memory card which i cant bloody find :(

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:45 pm 
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well like i said HKS make special BOV's for super chargers but the bypass is really simple to do. just need to have a pipe coming off the pressure side going to a butterfly valve (old throttle body or carburettor) and then make a lever on it and make a cable to run it off the throttle body. If you want I can get you loads of photos of the charger on the IS as it is currently off the car as we are copying the craddle and going to be making and selling kits for a fraction the cost that a proper TTE kit costs

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Lerch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:57 pm 
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right well another pic :) heres the first mock up of a custom intercooler.
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/20120309150631.jpg/][img]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9748/20120309150631.jpg[/img][/url]

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:44 pm 
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its a pity you can't make that a twin bypass intercooler as with the pressures you will be running it should be able to take it.

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323F Rock
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:59 pm 
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dude how are you piping that up? :?
i thought the outlets would have been on the ends of the tanks?

what do you mean Ayrton? a twin pass core? i'm confused :(

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:02 pm 
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[quote="323F Rock"]what do you mean Ayrton? a twin pass core? i'm confused :([/quote]

It is an old trick I was taught by my old boss who used to race a RX2 back in the day. basically if you take any form of radiator or intercooler and you put both the inlet and outlet on the same side in the same tank then put a division between them it will then force what ever is being cooled to pass through the length of the radiator or intercooler twice. once from the inlet to the other end and then back through again to the exit. If that makes any sense.

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Lerch
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:05 pm 
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new roof spoiler!!! yeah boy :D
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/20120310135202.jpg/][img]http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5776/20120310135202.jpg[/img][/url]

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Stuz
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Hell yeah, I know what's coming now :D

Andy you naughty boy. . .Smoking on a public forum. . .:lol:

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323F Rock
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:25 pm 
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[quote="eogbaker"][quote="323F Rock"]what do you mean Ayrton? a twin pass core? i'm confused :([/quote]

It is an old trick I was taught by my old boss who used to race a RX2 back in the day. basically if you take any form of radiator or intercooler and you put both the inlet and outlet on the same side in the same tank then put a division between them it will then force what ever is being cooled to pass through the length of the radiator or intercooler twice. once from the inlet to the other end and then back through again to the exit. If that makes any sense.[/quote]

Ahh yeah in the heat exchanger industry that is called a twin-pass unit as the media to be cooled will pass through the core twice. It's a good way of increasing your flow per tube value but increases your pressure drop through the core :D

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:07 pm 
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[quote="323F Rock"][quote="eogbaker"][quote="323F Rock"]what do you mean Ayrton? a twin pass core? i'm confused :([/quote]

It is an old trick I was taught by my old boss who used to race a RX2 back in the day. basically if you take any form of radiator or intercooler and you put both the inlet and outlet on the same side in the same tank then put a division between them it will then force what ever is being cooled to pass through the length of the radiator or intercooler twice. once from the inlet to the other end and then back through again to the exit. If that makes any sense.[/quote]

Ahh yeah in the heat exchanger industry that is called a twin-pass unit as the media to be cooled will pass through the core twice. It's a good way of increasing your flow per tube value but increases your pressure drop through the core :D[/quote]

Is that not because the density of the air is becoming thicker due to it being cooled more? Also surely if the bypass valve runs off the pressure in the manifold (and if he works out correct pulley sizes) even with a pressure drop through the cooler he can still make sure it has his 6 or 8PSI that he wants making it into the engine

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323F Rock
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:32 pm 
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[quote="eogbaker"][quote="323F Rock"][quote="eogbaker"]
It is an old trick I was taught by my old boss who used to race a RX2 back in the day. basically if you take any form of radiator or intercooler and you put both the inlet and outlet on the same side in the same tank then put a division between them it will then force what ever is being cooled to pass through the length of the radiator or intercooler twice. once from the inlet to the other end and then back through again to the exit. If that makes any sense.[/quote]

Ahh yeah in the heat exchanger industry that is called a twin-pass unit as the media to be cooled will pass through the core twice. It's a good way of increasing your flow per tube value but increases your pressure drop through the core :D[/quote]

Is that not because the density of the air is becoming thicker due to it being cooled more? Also surely if the bypass valve runs off the pressure in the manifold (and if he works out correct pulley sizes) even with a pressure drop through the cooler he can still make sure it has his 6 or 8PSI that he wants making it into the engine[/quote]


Not exactly no, it’s because of the cross sectional open area is now half of what it was, hence the flow per tube speeds up but so does the pressure drop. Every charge air cooler will have a pressure drop.

For example 14 tubes, 500mm length, twin pass core can be estimated to be the same as a 7 tubes, 1000mm length, single pass core.

The bypass valve needs to open at 6-8psi (or whatever pressure Lerch has the balls to go to! :lol: ) the valve will read the pressure at the manifold as this is what we’re interested in. Say the charge cooler has a pressure drop of 3psi then the super charger will have to produce 3psi more pressure to meet the desired pressure at the manifold, this isn’t taking in consideration the pressure drop through the pipe work!
Without knowing what pressure the supercharger is capable of now with that pulley (or what the original pulley belt run and diameters were) it is near impossible to calculate a new pulley size straight away.

I still think a bypass valve which is actuated by the manifold pressure (similar to a waste gate on a turbo system) and stick with standard pulley as a base mark is the best way to go, and if we need to create boost faster then fit a smaller pulley or if the bypass valve is always open a larger pulley to control the pressure build up.

In the capillary tube from the manifold to the bypass valve we can fit a boost controller if the bypass valve is opening before the desired pressure in the manifold is reached.

Just need to find a decent bypass valve now and pipe it in :D

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Lerch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:19 pm 
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^^

yeah, what nathan said lol! I've got some source some long mate bolts tonight and its all systems go :D

Ill hopefully be test fitting and maybe test running this weekend if all goes well

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Lerch
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:43 pm 
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right heres a few pics of the first mock-up bracket and test fit. Sorry about picture quality, twas dark and phone battery was almost a gonna :(
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/20120312182207.jpg/][img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2993/20120312182207.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/20120312182214.jpg/][img]http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2595/20120312182214.jpg[/img][/url]

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bikingpro5
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:18 pm 
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looks good so far, how much clearance do you have between your header and the inlet?


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323F Rock
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:23 pm 
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That looks awesome mate! I've got an idea for the air inlet and outlet pipes... Bring the plate into work tomorrow! :D

How do the pulleys line up?

What are you doing in way of belt tensionising?

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