£13 from Mazda - each.

I need 6 at least to cure my noisey engine.

I am working on a plan to recondition the parts, if i cant do one i can always buy them new.

From time to time the engine sounds perfect but half the time it rattles like a b*****d!!

Does anyone have any knowledge of removing them, do i need to buy a new cambelt?? What is the torque settings for the bolts i am removing

Is that the rattle that sounds like a heatsheild you are talking about, or are you talking bout a tappet rattle?

tappet rattle

Try these two links for some handy info on Tappets or HLAs:

[url]http://www.mazda323performance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4033[/url]
[url]http://www.nuvision.ndo.co.uk/tappets.htm[/url]

(Found by doing a search for Tappts! [-X )

Mark

i have a V6, how many hla's are there in th whole engine? just wondering as some of mine need replacing.

one for each valve. I checkd mine using a 0.1" feeler guage under the lobe of each cam. If the guage goes under, you need a new tappet/lifter.

The V6 is 24 valve but you may not need 24 which would be almost £300

I've read that guide mark.t that's what i am planning on doing however need the techical side of things like - torque settings before i starting dismantiling the head

ouch!

that isnt what i wanted to hear! lets just hope that it is only a few!!!

if you only replace a few does it not put extra pressure on the older ones resulting in you having to take the head off again and again? is it not better to replace them all in one go?

how do you actually take them out, do u have to unscrew them or do they just slide out? not something i am thinking of doing myself just interested.

better start saving!!!

Take the cams out and lift the HLA's out with a magnet The HLA is part of the cam follower

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/Picture(7).jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/8.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/Picture(9).jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/Picture(10).jpg[/img]

the lifters are the cylindrical shaped things under the cams.

update:

This afternoon i changed the oil using a castrol engine flush bottle - 300ml, £3. It says to empty the bottle into the oil filler hole and run the engine for 15 minutes occasionally revving it.

After this you drain the oil out from the sump, took the driver side wheel off and it made it much easier. What i realised is that the oil is a lot thinner and runs out of the engine much faster than the last time i did this. The flush must cause this.

I changed the oil filter - quite a bit easier than i first thought and filled the engine with 4 litres of castrol 10W/40 oil and let the engine run for 10 minutes. The tappets were quiet all the time.

While i was waiting i gently built the revs up (with it in 5th :P ) and got the speedo round to 160 at full revs!

Will report back with whether this has solved the tappet noise fingers crossed

Cool - sounds promising.

Mark

If you've used an oil flusher then you better read the article on HLAs and oil at http://home.btconnect.com/ken.holland/probemx/

Click the link [u]HLAs, Lifters (all years)[/u] in the FAQ Contents section.

I'd do it before you drive any further.....

Bit late now aint it lol

Seems to be running smooth as a nut

The bit that concerns me in that article is if you've just done an oil change and used a flushing oil too, your new filter will be full of crap in only 250 miles. You will then have a few more oil & filter changes to do in very quick succession to clear out all the loosened muck and get clean oil everywhere.....

[quote="Marky Mark"]The bit that concerns me in that article is if you've just done an oil change and used a flushing oil too, your new filter will be full of crap in only 250 miles. You will then have a few more oil & filter changes to do in very quick succession to clear out all the loosened muck and get clean oil everywhere.....[/quote]

I hope not I'm covering 500 mile round trip tomorrow!

I'll just change the oil when the lifters start rattling! Never mentioned this on the can o f flush!

Well I guess maybe they are being cautious, as the site is mainly for V6 engined cars, the V6 being the most complex and expensive. I think you should read it though and make your own judgement. There's certainly a lot of useful info there and they sound very knowledgeable.

marky mark - very interesting site, i seem to remember someone mentionning the friction gear before. anyone ever done anything with the friction gear, know what it is how much they are?

i did an oil change on mine a couple of weeks before christmas and havent noticed any significant reduction in the HLA (assuming that it is this) noise, was slightly disapointed as i was hoping i might! i didnt use a flushing agent as i wasnt aware of them until afterwards, my mate who gave me a hand said that he has used them and that it would prob be worth doing it next time (prob in june some time).

think its about time to take the top off of the v6 and have a look see

Oh i wouldnt like to take the rocker covers off the V6, im sure the rearward head will hit the bulkhead or somethign

Do the feeler guage test and you'll find out if its the HLAs otherwise it could be something more serious

I thought the info on oils was good, especially for the gearbox. I've never owned a car that needed transmission oil changes. The bit stating you shouldn't use a gearbox oil that contains sulphur as it will have the life of the bearings & synchros was VERY interesting. They weren't very complimentary about Magnatec in the engine either. Mobil-1 anyone?

reading around on the site with the link further up this page i found a diagnostics section for funny noises that come from the engine and it lists three possibilities, hla's, carbon knock and the friction gear. it is all for v6's so poss not that interesting to others.

from reading the diagnostics i have a horrible feeling that mine needs a new friction gear, good because the gear is about £10 but it says in the diagnostic that it takes 6-7 hours to fix! ouch!!! it does say that the friction gear is a purley aesthetic thing, in that at low revs it keeps the noise down.

i have down loaded and saved the whole diagnostic and have it saved on my comp, if any one wants a copy let me know.

will

fastmike

i can only assume that it must come off for maintanence, no way that it would have been designed that the engine has to some out to do work on the head!

would it???

[quote="fastmike"]Oh i wouldnt like to take the rocker covers off the V6, im sure the rearward head will hit the bulkhead or somethign [/quote]

I believe you have to take the intake and throttle body off etc then you can take the cover off....course the front one is no problem, but then all the faults you find would as always be at the rear bank.....

The Julian Bradbury site I came across while looking for stuff about the 323 when I was thinking of buying one, then saw it again on the MX-6 forum, good thing is it pointed me in the direction of having V6 engined Mazdas' - MX3 too small, MX6 too big, don't like look of either Xedos's so it left the ZXi Reckon its safe to say its his fault I got the mission of buying a 323ZXi!

Followed it when I changed the oil, used fully synthectic and a flushing oil plus ZX1 additive [/url]http://www.maz323f.co.uk/tuning/zx1/zx1.php[url] not that it was rattling anyway, but engine does seem more eager now, especially when cold.

Gonna follow this when changing gearbox oil (yup, using the right stuff, as I'd never have known about the sulphur content) brake discs, coolant and power steering fluid

Oh, and Marky Mark, Venus is delectable, ohhhh that accent just brings me out in goosebumps-minx!! Its just she keeps leading me on....lol

Be careful. Before you go all the way with the job, whip off the front rocker cover and check the front HLA's with a feeler guage. It takes about half an hour to do and costs nothing. If they're suspect change the oil and filter, drive 500 miles and change oil and filter again.

If there's no improvement in the noise after that and you're sure it's the HLA's it's time for surgery. Breathers off, inlet manifold off, rocker covers off, camshafts out, cam followers out. You need new inlet manifold gaskets. While you're there it's probably worth doing the rear friction gear and rear rocker cover gasket. Put some silicone around the mating face to make sure it seals.

I need to lie down after that.

Good luck,

Ed

hi ed

you mentioned the friction gear in your last post. have you had any dealings with the friction gear? difficult to change? how long and difficult is it to take off the rear head and all the other stuff you mentioned, are you looking at a weekend or a week? still debating a trip to the garage!

will

Hi Will,

Its not really that hard to do, it's just all the stripping that makes it a pain. To do the front one wouldn't be that hard but it only seems to be the rear one that gives trouble - Murphys Law I suppose.

It's actually not the gear itself that's the problem but the friction gear spring. Its like a big spring washer which pushes the friction gear against the cam gear.

The friction gear and cam gear are side by side. The cam gear has 55 teeth on it and the friction gear has 56. This means the friction gear at low rpm is always trying to move the driven cam gear relative to the driving gear (the one that the timing belt drives). The net result is the elimination of any backlash at low rpm (when you're most likely to notice it).

If you're feeling adventureous, have a look under the front rocker cover. On the front bank, the timing belt drives the exhaust camshaft directly, so the friction gear is on the inlet camshaft.

I think the spring costs about 10 quid. That's why if you have the rear camshafts out it's well worth changing the spring. I'll be doing this job sometime in the next few weeks so I'll try and take a photos along the way.

Friction gear noise isn't anything to worry about mechanically speaking, it's just annoying. On my car it tends to manifest itself after a long journey. If you lift the bonnet there's a tick-tick-tick sort of sound. Sounds just like an old fiesta with it's tappets hanging out!

Hope I haven't bored you too much with all this,

Ed

ed

absolutley brilliant mate, i havent done that much with engines before but my mate who i am buttering up to give me a hand has so not to worried about it. would def be interested in seeing the pics that you take.

let me know how you get on with it. any chance you can write a how to when you have done it?

will

No problem Will, it'll probably be the end of the month/ beginning of Feb before I get to do it though.

If your mates got oil in his veins you'll have no probs.

Ed

When you remove the camshafts, undo the bolts very slowly and very evenly, you are ment to turn the engine over to a certain point so the cam lobes are facing a certain way to take the load of the valve springs off the camshaft. The camshafts are hollow and can and do very easily snap if not removed with great care. When you have removed the spring, turn the friction gear round on the shaft so the face that was in contact with the spring is in contact with the other gear. Me and Wai changed his friction gear springs just before christmas

Just returned from the south - 450 mile round trip.

Engine running very smoothly and quietly. Performing better too, caught me out a couple of times doin over 110mph without knowing it!

Im not holding my breath tho

robbie/ wai

how long did it take you to change the friction gear? how much did you may for one and i am guessing that it is a mazda part only! any particular talk settings that i should be aware of?

will