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til5101
 Post subject: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Hi guys, I'm looking into fitting a turbo to my Mazda. It is a UK 2002 323 Sport 2.0.

What sort of power can I run safely on a standard engine?

Is the engine forged from factory?

Is the engine the same as the US spec Mazdaspeed? Just the US model has a turbo fitted?

Thanks!


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Marc S
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:29 pm 
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Not much.

Nope.

Nope. Yep.

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til5101
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:47 pm 
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Thanks Marc, do you know what the engine code of mine is? On the sticker in the door it says CE04D16 but after some googling that is a 1.8?


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Marc S
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:12 pm 
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post up some pics of the car and I'll let you know ;)

Should be an FS engine though...

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HughieW
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:09 am 
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As Marc says, it'll be the FS engine if it's the 2.0 sport :thumbleft:

Mazdaspeed ones in the US are the same with just a turbo and intercooler bolted on yes, but they run very low boost, taking the engine from about 140bhp to 170bhp (in whatever spec the yanks run).

You could turbo it, and probably push ~200bhp with the right setup, but it'd be a case of driving relatively sensibly, as it won't last anywhere near as long!

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Marc S
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:14 pm 
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They're not the same are they? I thought they had all sorts of different internals, which is why the UK FS doesn't take too kindly to boost...

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HughieW
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:17 pm 
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I was under the impression they're the same, but I could be wrong! Google time :lol:

EDIT: ClubProtege says the same as what I said - engine is the same, apart from it uses a slightly different inlet manifold (no VICS system), larger bore exhaust (duh), oil cooler, intercooler and turbocharger :thumbleft:

http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/showth ... post474852

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Lerch
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Isnt it FS-DE in UK versions and FS-ZE engines in the imports?

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HughieW
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:23 pm 
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Kinda - FS-DE is the "worldwide spec", FS-ZE is the "Mazdaspeed Japan spec", FS-DET is the "Mazdaspeed US spec" :thumbleft:

FS-DE: 130-140 BHP
FS-ZE: 170bhp
FS-DET: 170bhp (has a nicer torque curve than the FS-ZE apparently)

Wickipedia page on the F-series engine also confirms "This means that the Mazdaspeed Protegé's engine is internally identical to the regular FS-DE, except with a turbocharger installed."

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Lerch
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:28 pm 
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So according to this data you "COULD" run 170bhp on the standard FSDE safely with some work I guess? Would be a lot of money input for 30bhp gains though :/

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HughieW
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:31 pm 
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You could yes, but yeah it's a fair amount of work and money just for 30bhp - if you're spending that sort of money, why not spend a bit more and go all out :dontknow:

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Marc S
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Yep, I remember now :lol:

I figured it was way too much money to spend for very little gains...and I'd rather spend it on rebuilding the RX7 a few times :drunken:

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Lerch
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:35 pm 
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^^ agreed!

In answear to the original questions;

What sort of power can I run safely on a standard engine? Potential 170bhp safely

Is the engine forged from factory? Nope

Is the engine the same as the US spec Mazdaspeed? More or less but without the turbo

Just the US model has a turbo fitted? Yes

In my opinion it would be a hell of a lot of money for very little potential gains :)

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Johnfamiliasport20
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:11 am 
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I think you would also need to change the ECU.


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til5101
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Thank you everyone for your input! I have yet to find forged pistons for these engines from anywhere!


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Lerch
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:07 pm 
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til5101 wrote:
Thank you everyone for your input! I have yet to find forged pistons for these engines from anywhere!


If your really interested in getting more from the FSDE block then have a look at the Team Pro 5 website as they might be able to point you in the direction of some upgrades. However, its all going to come from the states I beleive which means long and costly postage on everything :/

Just a thought on this but would a BPT fit in the BJ engine bay? I'm guessing it would as its about the same size as the FSDE but engine mounts may be different etc......If the BP block fits then theres more options for that and they are easier to access due to it being used in the MX5's.

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HughieW
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:10 pm 
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It will fit, and you SHOULD be able to get mounts for it... my logic being that a few people have fitted K-series V6s to BJs, so you must be able to make some form of hybrid mount using BJ/BA/BG mounts :dontknow: if not, just make your own mounts :lol:

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Lerch
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:48 pm 
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Based on that logic I wouldnt even bother with the FS engine and go straight for the BP engine, so much more availability for parts and tuning....ask Hughie and 323FROCK.

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forest88
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:36 pm 
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I guess I should chime in here - over the years I changed almost every possible bolt-on part for the standard FS lump and it was last dyno'd at 155bhp at the flywheel. So yes to the "lots of money for little gain" remark for sure. However....the FS was only 131bhp out of the blocks in the UK whereas the FS-ZE was 170bhp as stock. Using tuner maths I reckon if I can ever get round to installing the ZE cams and pistons I have sitting in the garage, then a remap could well yield closer to 200bhp N/A. Thats my aim anyway and if I ever get it I will be sure to post (don't hold you breath anytime in the near future :lol: )

To be honest I would rather try and tune the pants off it without the turbo than boost it. I had a very interesting conversation with a Mazda tuning specialist in Wolverhampton a number of years ago that put me off the thought of a turbo.

Have to mention as well that if I ever win the lottery i intend to see if the 4G63 from an EVO VI would fit into one of the Jap market 4wd Familia's. 500bhp Mitsubazda anyone? :badgrin:


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errnee
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:26 am 
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Who tried to turbo his BJ and waist a ton of cash.... This guy :knob:
Long story short... dont do it.
Cost of parts either custom of shipped from the U.S plus clutch & tuning Have to use a standalone ECU which means loosing alot of factory systems such as central locking, climate and afew others I cant remember.


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protege
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:25 pm 
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Haven't visited here for a long time but it looks like a reunion here.
Even Doug posted :shock:

About the BPT in a BJ.
There are at least 2 ones out there.
According to them its a straight fit, especially going from a ZM/ZL 1.6/1.5 since the block is almost identical.
I especially like the 4wd saloon :roll: There's a video of that somehwere on the internet, saw it months ago (or was it years).
But be sure to check out the video on youtube down below:

http://fordlaser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88758

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GgutvftPo


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Zippy
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:11 pm 
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protege wrote:
Haven't visited here for a long time but it looks like a reunion here.


In which case, I'm going to join in! :blackeye:


I've been looking at turbo's, mostly for interests sake. I've done a fair bit of reading on it, Juan at HiBoost (in the US I think, and about 5 - 10 years ago), was reliably running 180 bhp at the wheels out of the zm-de. This I have found out, as there's a whole strip down on the internet, is basically the legendary B6 (from the Miata/MX-5) with a different head with improved valve angles and oil feeds etc.
I was busy reading up what he used, because it could be some fun...sometime in the future :badgrin:


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Marc S
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:17 pm 
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an MX5 engine will run 200bhp all day long!

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Zippy
 Post subject: Re: turbo questions..!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:21 am 
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Marc S wrote:
an MX5 engine will run 200bhp all day long!


8)

http://www.bbrgti.com/product_details.php?id=11646

I suspect that kit could be modified to fit a 323F - economically it makes no sense at all and I can't see it happening - but it does give an idea of what can be done. The transmission etc. is meant to be able to take it too - kinda explains why I'm still on my original clutch over 100k miles later!


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