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parky323
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Does anyone know why the mx5 1.8 bp makes 124 bhp but the 323f only makes115 bhp? is it just down to the longer induction pipe and tubeular exhaust manifold or was some of the internals changed or ecu tweeked?


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Marc S
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:52 pm 
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Totally different internals I'd say - the 1.6 is based on the earlier engine found in the BG - even has an oil feed line for the turbo :shock:

The earlier 323F 1.8 engine (in the GT) also produced a lot more power (140bhp)...it's what you need in your BA ;)

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parky323
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:17 pm 
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the engines i was looking at where both 1.8 16v BP engines in the 323 BA and MX5 (a 2000).


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HughieW
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:25 am 
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The BP came in the MX5's (124bhp), the 323F BGs (135-140bhp), and the 323F BAs (115bhp). The internals are different I think - I know for a fact the cams are different across all 3, but all parts are sort of interchangable. They will fit, but the ECU might not like them :lol:

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MrKikker
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:58 am 
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Here's some info on that

Quote:
Mazda MX-5 1998 - 2005

The BP-4W engine remained at 1.8 L (110 cu in) but received several minor updates. The engine compression ratio was raised from 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 by adding slightly domed pistons; the intake cam was changed to a solid lifter design with a stronger cam; the intake runners in the head were straightened and the intake manifold was mounted higher up. Mazda's Variable Intake Control System was introduced, which effectively gave a long narrow intake manifold at low rpm for better swirl, changing to a short, free-flowing manifold at high rpm for maximum breathing. Power output of the new engine was quoted at 104.4 kW (140.0 bhp) with 116 lbf·ft (157 N·m) of torque.


Please note that the engine was called BP-4W AFTER they made the updates, so basically it's just a tuned BP-ZE engine.

The general discription for the BP engine:

Quote:
Mazda BP Engine

The 1.8 L (1,839 cc) BP is a dual-overhead variant of the B8. It was first found in the 1989 Mazda Familia and American-market 1990 Mazda Protege LX. This engine was dubbed BP-ZE and featured a forged crankshaft, piston oil squirters, a structural aluminum oil pan with cooling fins, a 7,000 rpm redline, and the Variable Inertia Charging System (VICS). This particular variant can be found in the following vehicles:
1989-1994 Mazda Familia GT (European & Australian Market)
1989-1994 Ford Laser TX3 (Australian Market)
1990-1994 Mazda Protege LX (with VICS)
1995-1998 Mazda Protege ES (Australian Market: 1994-1998 323 Protege SE)
1990 Mazda Infini
1990-1991 and 1993 Mazda Protege GT (Canadian Market)
1990-1993 Mazda 323 (European Market)
1991-1996 Ford Escort GT and LX-E
1991-1996 Mercury Tracer LTS
1995-1997 Kia Sephia RS, LS, GS
1994-1998 Mazda Familia (Japanese Market)
1994-1997 Mazda MX-5/Miata (did not have VICS until 1999)

There is also a non-performance version that is most easily recognized by its black stamped-steel oil pan. It also features a cast crankshaft, no oil squirters, a plastic oil pickup tube and less aggressive camshafts. It is found in the 1995-1998 Mazda Protege ES.


Now here's the catch. We all know the BA's engines are "BP" engines, but they have 115bhp, whereas the "BP GT" engine has 131bhp. In the above stated 2nd blacked part, they speak of a non-performance BP-ZE engine, fitted in a 1995-1998 Mazda Protege ES. This car has the following engine setups:

Quote:
Mazda BH model

1994–1998 – 1.5 L (1,500 cc) Z5, FI, 16-valve DOHC, 89 hp (66 kW; 90 PS) / 97 ft·lb (132 N·m)
1994–1996 – 1.8 L (1,800 cc) B8, 114 hp (85 kW; 116 PS) / 115 ft·lb (156 N·m)
1994–1996 – 2.0 L (2,000 cc) KF V6, FI, 24-valve DOHC, 144 hp (107 kW; 146 PS) / 132 ft·lb (179 N·m)
1995–1999 – 1.3 L (1,300 cc) B3, 74 hp (55 kW; 75 PS) / 77 ft·lb (104 N·m)
1995–1999 – 1.8 L (1,800 cc) BP, FI, 16-valve DOHC, 131 hp (98 kW; 133 PS) / 118 ft·lb (160 N·m)
1995–1999 – 2.0 L (2,000 cc) RF, Diesel, 8-valve, 71 hp (53 kW; 72 PS) / 94 ft·lb (127 N·m)


Visible is the 131hp producing BP engine, fitted from 1995, but it's producing the same amount of horsepower as the BP-ZE engine while being a "non performance" variant??? But let's not get caught up on that.
The B8 engine is also stated to produce 115bhp, but there never was a B8 engine producing 115bhp, only a 103/106bhp model.

Quote:
Mazda B8 Engine

The 1.8 L (1,839 cc) B8 is not just a bored and stroked B6. Rather, it uses a new block with widened cylinder spacing. The bore is 83 mm and the stroke is 85 mm. This SOHC engine was used in various Australian Mazda 323s, the American 1990-1994 Mazda Protege, and in Canadian variants of the 323 hatchback. It came in both 8 (B8-E) and 16-valve variants (B8-ME). It features hydraulic lash adjusters, a belt-driven cam, an 8.9:1 compression ratio, a 6,000 rpm redline, and multi-port fuel injection. Power outputs are:
103 hp (77 kW), 111 lb-ft (U.S./Canadian market)[4]
106 hp (78 kW) at 5,300 rpm, 151 N·m (111 lb·ft) at 4,000 rpm (European markets)[4]


So appearantly the B8 engine fitted in the Mazda BH model has the same specifications as the engine fitted in the BA, having the same horsepower and torque readings, however the engine-codes are different.

Here's a theory:
Quote:
They took the B8 engine fitted in the Mazda BH Model (already existing by the time the BH and the BA started to appear in 1994), named it "B8" in the Mazda BH, named it "BP" in the BA and went ahead with that. In 1995, they started replacing the "B8" engines in the Mazda BH model with the "BP" engine we know as a "BP GT" engine, actually being the BP-ZE engine (as it comes out of a Mazda BG GT, and is also fitted in a 1991-1996 Ford Escort GT) producing 131bhp, however they never bothered replacing the engines in the Mazda BA.

HOWEVER it is clearly stated that the B8 engine was never fitted in the Mazda BA model, so they must have renamed the "B8" to "BP" BEFORE mounting it in the Mazda BA. BUT, if this is true, there would be 2 types of BP engines; one actually being a BP-ZE engine simply called "BP" already in production by that time, the other being the "BP" engine we know is fitted in the BA, having the exact same power as the B8 engine. However the engine specifications of the BP-ZE differ from the B8 engine, which can either mean 3 things: that the "BP" engine fitted in the Mazda BA is some sort of weird mix of engine blocks and parts, the "BP" engine fitted in the Mazda BA is a renamed "B8" engine, or the "BP" engine fitted in the Mazda BA is some sort of even-less-non-performance variant of the BP-ZE engine.

I guess in the end Mazda didn't know what they were doing and were simply slapping engine's into cars and making a huge mess :lol:


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RHRH
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:25 pm 
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The B8 is the regular 1.8 in the BG's right? not the GT model the over here GLX model...


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MrKikker
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:31 pm 
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RHRH wrote:
The B8 is the regular 1.8 in the BG's right? not the GT model the over here GLX model...

correct :)


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Lukearama
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:16 pm 
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If it helps the BP engine in Australian BA's have Vics the alloy sump with cooling and HLA's on the cam shaft. The B6 I had in my MX5 was a far shorter block. This made my NA mx5 a sweet ride but underpowered... The BP Conversion to them gives them mumbo but unbalances the weight ditribution and breaks rear diffs, hence the BP engine came with a heavier stronger diff assembly in the later MX5's hence they need power steering also and were slower...


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Mr. Ali
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:08 am 
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All BP engines have the VICS system I thought? At least the BA BP and de BP GT from the BG! :)


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Smotter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:51 pm 
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I heard one reason for the BP motor's lower is the low compression ratio as standard. This also accounts for the number of 200,000 plus mile engines still running sweetly ... :D

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project.r.racing
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:47 am 
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there is no difference inturnally between a MX5 BP 94-97 and a 323 BP 90-96. the difference are the ecu, ignition timing, intake and exhaust manifold. one is tuned for max rev higher peak rpm, the other is turned as a regular street car.

no one noticed that the peak power was at different rpm for the MX5 and 323 BPs?

after 96 came changes to injectors, cams, ignition etc for the 323 BP version.

if you are still unsure what i'm on about. this has been covered on astinagt.com and clubprotege.com many times. a little google search will find you the answers.


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HMT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:41 am 
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HughieW wrote:
The BP came in the MX5's (124bhp), the 323F BGs (135-140bhp), and the 323F BAs (115bhp). The internals are different I think - I know for a fact the cams are different across all 3, but all parts are sort of interchangable. They will fit, but the ECU might not like them :lol:


I know this thread is ancient but those "facts" are dead wrong so i feel inclined to correct.
As project.r stated, these engines are the same BP05 block and head incl cam shafts (I've owned all 3 by the way):
323 BG GT 89-94 --> 128 HP
323 BA 1.8 94-96 --> 114 HP
MX-5 NA 1.8 94-96 --> 131 HP
All HP outputs acc to EU spec.
There was an early non cat BG that used different internals with 140HP as well as later spec MX5 NAs. The NB used a different heads and pistons (compression ratio) and cam shafts.

Still, the main reason for the difference in power is the setup/tune for different use (as stated by project.r)


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HughieW
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:44 am 
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Holy thread ressurection :lol: you're right though, my info there is wrong! Since writing that, I've also worked on all manner of engines :lol:

All your corrected info is spot on :thumbleft:

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maZZda
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:32 am 
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You guys brought me back in time just before i figured out i want an F.. :lol:
Then was the time when i read aloooot of forums and clubs about the engines in the 323 mazdas.. :roll:


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HMT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:55 am 
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HughieW wrote:
Holy thread ressurection


Yeah, sorry about that, i was just browsing for a few bits of BP specific info :)


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HMT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Mr. Ali wrote:
All BP engines have the VICS system I thought? At least the BA BP and de BP GT from the BG! :)


To add a bit more info:
all 323 DOHC BP engines i.e. BP05, were equipped with VICS, i.e. the BG GT and the BA 1.8, albeit with different intake manifolds but the same general VICS design.

The "B8" mentioned above, which actually is a BP SOHC 16 valve engine (BP01) with 103/106 HP that came in the BG / BG8 chassis did not have VICS, nor was it ever used in the BHA platform (it meant however that you could buy a relatively cheap 4WD Baby GTR 323 without the Turbo power). It was very similar to the B6 SOHC used in the BG, but with more displacement, hence the term "B8". Still uses the good old BP block though.
The DOHC base engines are the same in the BG and BA 1.8, only bolt on parts differ.

The Miata MX5 BP05 was not equipped with VICS in the NA. The NB BP4W used VICS in different versions, depending on the market (the one in the US sucked).

Don't know if that helps anyone :D
Nowadays I'm trying to make a sport out of owning one of each 1.8l 90s Mazda engine,
so i have the BP05 DOHC in my BA, the MX5 NA with BP4W IRTB swap and the K8 V6 in the MX3 - still lacking the BP01 SOHC since it's rare and rather obsolete due to the existence of the BP05, therefore hard to find. But i would like to swap it into the BG at some point to complete the set. After that, I would have to acquire a GTR, naturally :D


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